Continuation of "Stop insulting episode authours"

We all make mistakes and I too can’t say I haven’t done it either. I respect you for admitting that, something most people would not do.

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I personally appreciate this a lot. The only reason i said anything is because I was really bothered by the way you just dismissed Hibiscus

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Yes that is true. I myself find it hard to admit to things, but I was clearly wrong to say all of that, and It would be so wrong of me to continue to deny that I was wrong.

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It was really rude of me to dismiss Hibiscus like that. I completely deserved everything that you and Mage told me.

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I still think you’re missing the point I’m trying to make, and maybe it’s my fault, maybe I’m not explaining it very well, or maybe you’re purposefully misunderstanding me.

First of all, I find it interesting that you’re latching on to the teacher/student relationship while completely ignoring the Mafia stories. As an Italian, I should find those type of stories insulting. The Mafia is a blight in our country and the Mafia bosses are awful human beings who deserve jail for life, all of them. And yet, I don’t care about how the Mafia is depicted in the Episode stories because, guess what, is fiction, is not real and it’s not supposed to be real. I mean, according to your opinion, I and all the other Italians (especially in Sicily) should have complained and ask for ‘Squadra Antimafia’ to be erased because of Rosy Abate, a Mafia bosswoman who was heavily glamourized and became the Anti-heroine of the show. But, once again, guess what? Not real, it’s fiction. So I don’t care.

Second of all, you say teacher/student relationships shouldn’t be written and Episode shouldn’t allow to write them because 13 years old could get convinced that having a relationship with a teacher is a good idea. Then what about pregnancy stories? Should we ban them too because otherwise 13 years old should get ideas that getting pregnant at that age is a good idea? Also, we should ban vampire stories because all vampires are much older than then the MC. Let’s also ban the bad boy stories because it depicts a toxic relationship. Also let’s ban all the stories that have murder in it (horror, mystery etc) because otherwise 13 years old could get the idea that murdering people is a good thing. And so on and so forth. Where do we draw the line then? You see how easy it is to get caught up in it?

Third of all, you talk about 13 years old as if they are little children who can’t think for themselves and it’s a huge discredit to them. 13 years old are not six. Normal 13 years old can distinguish between reality and fiction and if they can’t, then it means they have issues and shouldn’t be allowed to read any books at all, not watch movies or TV shows and not even play videogames otherwise they could be easily ‘influenced’ by them.

Also, someone said that some girls read teacher/student stories on Episode or something and then basically flirted with their teacher and something bad happened to them. Don’t you see that this is actually blaming the girls when the fault is entirely the teacher’s? That teacher was a predator, plain and simple. Normal teachers don’t pray on their students even if said students flirt with them and supposedly ‘encourage’ them. A normal teacher rebukes them. And, about the examples of these girls, and in general really, whether the girls had read or not Episode stories, whether they had ‘encourage’ the teacher’s attentions, something bad would happen anyway because that particular teacher is, once again, a predator. You can’t blame authors and their stories for the actions of fu**ing predators because it’s entirely their fault whether their victims read Episode stories depicting teacher/student relationships or not.

Fiction is fiction and should be treated as such. No bearing on reality whatsover, as long as the stories in question have warnings on them. I really don’t see what the problem is. Becoming the Morality Police on works of fiction is absolutely ridiculous and pointless.

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Yo, sei italiana? Passa dal nostro thread qualche volta se ti va di chiacchierare ^^

Anyways, as an Italian myself, I don’t agree with what you wrote here:

… for the same reason I stated in my reply above:

Comparing fiction that is aired for an adult public and stories that are written for an international public, most of which minors, is wrong and an oversight.

“Squadra Antimafia” is not targeted to a young public, which is a point that all episode authors should keep in mind when writing their stories. The age rating isn’t something Episode has invented for the app, it exists universally and as such, it should be followed.

Furthermore, an international public doesn’t have the same view of our culture as we do. As Italians, we’re more likely to be aware of what is fiction and what isn’t, due to mafia being talked about frequently. And it isn’t the same thing, also because everything - even in fiction - carries a message. Yes, most people are able to discern truth from fiction, but how can a non-Italian - who has no contact whatsoever with our culture - know what is a stereotype and what isn’t, especially if they are young? You take it for granted because you’re Italian yourself. When I was that young I was so full of misconceptions and tropes because of the media I consumed.

But even if it isn’t a question of being able to understand it’s all fake and fairytales, it’s the trope that we’re tired of. Perhaps it doesn’t bother you, but it bothers me and many others. Imagine if the world kept representing POCs as monkeys like in the old days of colonialism (and after). At this point in time, even if we were all aware that they’re people like us, we’d still be laughing at shows and series that use that trope as a joke. Meanwhile, the black community would be fuming.

Another harmful stereotype that you can compare with the Italian mafia is the h*rny and overly sexual latinas. Do such people exist in latinx communities? Of course they do, just like mafia exists in Italy. Do these people exist in other communities as well? Yup, just like mafia exists in other countries too. So what’s the deal if I add one overly sexual character to my story and I make it latina?

The issue is that certain tropes are too entrenched in the media to be used lightly. It created wrong ideas, wrong views of (foreign) communities. Do all latina care if some non-latinx author included an overly sexual latina character in their story? Probably not, but what about those who do? If we kept ignoring all those ‘sensitive’ people we’d still be laughing at monkey-POCs and we’d be okay with it. Perhaps you don’t realize it, but Italians and mafia go hand-in-hand in lots of people’s minds.

Of course, I didn’t talk about cultural and ethnic accuracy, but it goes with what I just said.

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I completely understand what you’re saying and I agree with you. My point isn’t that we shouldn’t help authors understand some tropes and stereotypes which can be very harmful. That’s what constructive criticism is for and I’m all for that.

My point is the outright statement ‘authors shouldn’t write stories that have teacher/student relationship in it or Mafia stories etc’. That’s called censorship and I can’t agree with that. Authors should write about whatever they want and once they do they should accept constructive criticism about it (as long as it is actually constructive and not outright bashing) and not being stopped from writing about certain topics altogether. And that’s what some people in the forum have been pushing towards and I don’t agree with that all.

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Oh yeah lol that’s stupid. I believe anyone should be free to write about whatever they wish to write about. However as an author, one should make it their top priority to do research before they even open their writing programs or grab their pens. But other than that, I’d be happy to read actually good mafia stories (with good as in, the whole mafia is not some kind of cotton candy kind of fantasy).

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Exactly. Of course you should research, of course you should strive not be harmful towards others. But you still should write whatever you want (as long as it complies with the content guidelines of course) and not be blacklisted or insulted for it.

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Errrmmmmm, yeah? Absolutely that makes the teacher a predator.
How does that blame the minor though? (Not just girls. Boys are also preyed upon by adults in positions of power).

The issue is by writing a story that portrays a teen x teacher romance (for example) in a positive light could potentially lead an impressionable teen to think that it’s okay and ignore signs of predatory behavior and become more susceptible to inappropriate adults. Does that make sense?

If I get called moral police I’m going to die laughing

I’ve been guilty of calling people moral police before when I disagreed with their perceptions and arguments. It’s really not cool and just adds to the animosity. You can have civil disagreements without name calling.

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Heres where i disagree agree with you because yes i believe you should be able to write whatever you want to write but not without criticism and not without people who are offended by what you wrote boycotting your work. If you made the conscious decision to publish a dangerous and harmful story trope you are also opening yourself up to the consequences that come with hurting large groups of people. Just as anyone has a right to publish whatever they want, readers have a right to hold authors accountable for the harmful things they published

That’s called bashing and it’s just as harmful as people supposedly writing ‘harmful’ content. You can say what you mean to say to an author without sending hate mail.

I never said anything about « bashing » or « hatemail » I said criticism and accountability

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Literally everything could lead susceptible teens to be susceptible. That still shouldn’t stop authors from writing what they want. And seriously, I don’t think you and those who think like you realize what PG-13 appropriate content is. It’s about non explicit sex, no nudity related to sex and no swear words. PLL, who has a teacher/student relationship in it is PG-13. It means 13 over, ergo not for children because 13 years old are considered teens and not children. It’s up to the parents to teach them that some men (or women) can be predators and how to recognize predator behaviors, not to the authors of stories who simply want to have the freedom of writing what they want.

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I just want to say while this thread is back to buzzing again:
Can we please for the love of all things good and right stay consistent in what’s toxic or problematic? I’m getting a bit sick of people bashing tropes and other things only to conveniently turn a blind eye when it’s their friend or themselves doing it. I’m all for calling out actual problematic content but some of y’all can’t even stay consistent.

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Oh believe me out of most people actively partaking in this thread I’d say Ivy is actually one of the few who does have an intelligent idea of what pg13 intels.

I do agree with this though. I remember there being mentions of the “children” (as in under 13) using the app but in my opinion it’s really not my responsibility to make sure a ten year old who shouldn’t even be on the app isn’t reading my story. That’s on the parents. As long as the work aligns with the pg13 guidelines then an author should be good.

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You literally said that you disagreed with me about not insulting authors. That’s hate mail, you know? Insulting someone just because you don’t agree with they write?

Im not disagreeing that they shouldn’t be insulted, I’d prefer if everyone were nice to each other and give their feedback politely and respectfully however as Hibiscus put it

So I wasn’t arguing against actual insults but the way many people brush off any criticism at all as insults.

Because i will never be as eloquent as them, this is what i am arguing

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I guess this is me getting a taste of my own medicine? :joy::joy:

Anyways,
It’s not necessarily about what is pg-13 appropriate or not. Frankly, I tend to be more on the anti-censorship side of things in most cases. I tend to see many shades of gray and not very often black and white. What I’m saying is, regardless of guidelines there are some themes and tropes that are troubling and worth discussing WITHOUT hostility. Doesn’t necessarily mean one side of the argument is right or wrong and doesn’t mean we have to agree.

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I agree with this wholeheartedly. While there have been multiple times people have brought up “problematic/toxic things” that have made me roll my eyes and go “seriously this?!” I do think there are always tropes that need to be addressed and the teacher student relationship being shown in a positive light is definitely one of them. For one it’s very much a real thing. When someone writes a vampire story yeah you can argue there are underlying issues with the theme but at the end of the day you’re not going to run into a vampire who claims their love for you.
Predator teachers absolutely do exist. To me that’s the big difference. It’s the real vs. the fiction.

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