Discussion: It’s Not Popular Authors’ Faults You’re Not Trending

Outside of the theme/editor pick shelves, do you have some thoughts or suggestions on how they could do better to provide more spotlight?
EDIT Also, thoughts or suggestions on how Episode could adjust their trending algorithms?

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If that’s not already a topic, someone who has the energy, please create it! Because lord knows we’ve been giving ideas for improvements on that front for years, so having an actual list or thread about it would be nice.

Careful though, the big boss doesn’t like when we criticize them and might silence you for it, shhh~

I think they would be open to suggestions.
Personally, I’ve yet to hear any solid ideas or suggestions other than just a general statement of “they need to do more”.

I mean this in the kindest way possible.
Just not seeing how they can even the playing field better or give more support to small authors if there isn’t solid ideas or suggestions being given to them. Just seems the expectations are too vague and unrealistic right now.

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I think one of the frustrations that @Baleigh_episode is trying to convey and people keep missing the point:

An opportunity is an opportunity. What you do with said opportunity is on you, not Episode. How many times are they expected to promote or spotlight someone if said individual is not also putting in the extra effort?

You can be the best writer or director on the platform, but this isn’t going to matter if you only update once a year or continuously abandon projects, etc.

Again, no shade. I myself am an author who updates at the pace of a snail and have more projects than I can reasonably handle. And that’s perfectly okay! Though I can’t reasonably expect episode to give me more spotlight than they already have.

Hope that makes sense.

Edit: And if you are taking full advantage of the spotlight…excellent! Smart choice if your goal is to become more successful on the app.

Just wanted to clarify this point is more specific to people who have already been given the opportunity (or multiple opportunities)
If you’re someone who is struggling to get on a shelf and get some spotlight in the first place, feel free to dm me here or on insta. I have some tips and tricks to share.

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I personally have always been interested in some sort of “Rising” section as opposed to only having “Trending.” Since it’s hard to trend in certain genres, having a hot/rising stories section would both prevent people from putting their stories in the wrong genres and might help visibility on the app for smaller stories!

But on Baleigh’s topic, I definitely agree. I haven’t seen very many great authors who go 100% unnoticed—sooner or later, their reads pick up or they end up on a shelf. If you’re consistent and patient, your efforts should be rewarded!

Consistent updates is huge as well—if you take a look at the trending section, most the stories there have around 50 chapters. In most genres, you can’t trend (from a mathematical standpoint) if you don’t have enough chapters for people to read.

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Oh, people on this thread flagged my previous post as “innapropriate” to the point it’s been hidden, how surprising :roll_eyes: This post is going to be another long post from me but I do say everything I say with good intent and good faith. I also mean what I say in the kindest way, so I hope my criticism isn’t taken as some sort of attack (as it seems my previous post was understood? Not sure how?).

Unfortunately, Episode has never been open to suggestions. For anyone to say that they haven’t seen any solid ideas or suggestions and/or to say that this whole situation isn’t Episode’s fault leads me to believe that they must be new, at least on the forums. Not that that’s a bad thing, but it needs to be pointed out because trust me, we’ve been suggesting solutions for years and Episode does not listen until they’re forced to, by the outspoken forum users, many of whom are unfortunately gone now (wonder why). How do you think the shelves we see now and changes that help new authors have been put in place? Because we asked for them over and over and over again until Episode finally listened. It’s those “little” authors so many here seem to think “don’t work as hard” that worked their butt off to get the opportunities they have now, like the monthly shelves, and that honestly is far from enough. The changes made thanks to the community really had to be pushed in order to get any attention, and Episode still ignores many issues and looks away when the community offers solutions. Sometimes, they even make things worse (eg: removing the report option on the app altogether instead of just fixing their report system, which we’ve been asking them to do since forever). There have been many, many solid ideas given over the years:

  • Create a shelf for authors under 10000 reads, a sort of “Discover” section
  • Create a permanent “hidden gems” section for new/upcoming authors
  • Create a sort of “rising” section as @nals said above aside or instead of the stagnating “trending” section we’ve got
  • Create a “Recommended for you” or “Because you liked…” section
  • Fix the report system and stop looking away when problematic stories get on trending. Because since forever, to actually get a problematic story removed, there had to be massive outrage on the forums. And even then, they still haven’t fixed it. Seems like they completely removed it, actually, but that’s another story.
  • Stop featuring clearly inappropriate and problematic stories and therefore promote those authors when there is such better content out there made by “smaller” authors that put in much more work in what they do.
  • Bring more variety to the featured section, in genre, in representation, everything. And maybe don’t feature the same authors more than 2~3 times.
  • The monthly shelves. Yeah, that didn’t use to be a thing. But we demanded it over and over and finally made it happen.
  • Give the option to receive notifications for when an author you follow updates or a story you read gets updated (this would help all authors, actually)…

There was a whole thread of ideas here!

With all due respect to everyone here, this whole thread reminds me of rich people blaming poor people for complaining and telling them they could be rich too if they “actually put the work in” when we obviously don’t live in that kind of system.

This is not a meritocracy. “An opportunity is an opportunity” “What you do with said opportunity is up to you”… It’s nice to see things that way, but it is seeing Episode, the platform, the team, the company, with rose-colored glasses. I wish I could see it that way too sometimes, but the reality is very different… You can work as hard as you can, that’s not what’s going to get you on trending or featured. You can work much less, actually, and just focus on marketing instead of writing, copy/emulate/get inspired by what is already trending and featured and you’ll get a much higher chance to be there. Because of the public Episode created for itself. Many authors already know that and do it, and guess what, many of them are the “big” ones now. Many known authors whom I respect, like @EliseC (shout out to you, queen, I always loved your thrillers and “Maternal Instincts” :crown:), will tell you:

I would just add *the key to writing on Episode […]. I explain more in this post why it is indeed Episode’s fault and why it is not a good platform for new authors with original ideas, so everyone reading this is free to refer to that if you want to know more about what I’m talking about.

True. But also, I’d like to conclude this post by correcting this sentence to something I feel would be more accurate and then elaborate a little bit by addressing “smaller” authors:
“You can be the best writer or director on the platform, but this isn’t going to matter if that platform only promotes and continues to create and cater to one type of public.
Just like in life, Hollywood, politics, the corporate latter, whatever: you can work as hard as you can, you may never get a chance at success because of a system that is against you. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try, because every now and then there is a one in a million chance that you will succeed, that your hard work will pay off, but if you fail, it is not your fault. It’s not because “you didn’t actually put in the work”. People who barely put any work in what they do will often times have much more success than you because the system/platform/the law/the company/etc favors them, that’s just how it is. Maybe not directly because of them, not because of you, but because of the system/the platform/the law/the company/etc…

Edit: Oof! I know I said that this was going to be a long post but damn…! Turns out I had a lot more energy and a lot more to say than I thought. Apologies if this post lacks some structure… Again, I’m pretty rusty.

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Exactly. If you get featured and you don’t update to get “popular” that’s on you. It’s not episode’s fault you waited 6 months to update or whatever it is you did.

And really it’s not even about being necessarily “good.” I’ve seen some (in my opinion) very very overhyped smaller authors (particularly ones who write in smaller genres like comedy or thriller) get featured and pushed to the top and given chances because the community mentions them for shelves or shares screenies, etc. The community can be a very powerful thing (for good or bad) if you let it.

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Removed this part for reasons.

With all due respect I think it’s been clarified multiple times that we’re referring to the authors who aren’t working hard in this thread. I’m not sure if you’re not getting that (even though it’s been reiterated multiple times) or if you’re purposely ignoring it, but to clarify again we’re not talking about the authors who are actually putting the work in. We’re talking about the ones who aren’t.

You’re also aware that Episode can give smaller authors every opportunity in the damn book and if they’re not writing what the community wants to read they don’t have to be read, right? What then? Whose fault is it going to be when all of these more niche stories get featured and they still don’t blow up? Episode? The community? The fact stands that we can give a million opportunities to people if they 1. don’t take them and use them to their advantage they’re definitely not going to get anywhere and 2. if they’re already writing in a more niche based category it’s going to be even harder for it to gain traction in the community.

Yeah, sorry but @CosmicIvy is quite literally talking about how people don’t even try when Episode gives them chances. She’s not heart eying the company and building them a shrine in her basement.

So, all the niche based stories being featured then… Fever dream?? I mean, it has to be since they’re never promoted, right? Is it not “promotion” if episode features (let’s say) a niche based mystery story on a shelf?
Despite what you might believe Episode has been very good lately about featuring less popular authors and tropes on their shelves. It’s not their fault if readers don’t want to read them or if the authors take months to update and don’t build up a proper readership.

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This is a shot in the dark but if any “bigger” authors are watching this thread or if any of you know some that might be willing to contribute; I think it might be nice to read from your viewpoint about how you all got where you are today. There seems to be a common assumption that reads just fall out of the sky, so I think maybe reading just how y’all got your original readers might be refreshing.

I know many users who ~are gone now~ and none of them are they way you described. We’re 100% definitely not talking about the same people. Some were forced to go for no good reason, others chose to go for good reason. They are the ones I’m talking about.

I already responded to this. Starting with letting you know that the title is a little inflammatory. And you, yourself, might be talking about the few authors who aren’t known, aren’t putting in the work, and are complaining (which I personally wouldn’t have made a whole thread about, personally, since they’re obviously not a very large and influential group of users) but not everyone in this thread seems to think that way. I’m replying to a different user, saying different things, about a different topic (suggestions and solutions given to Episode to improve and help “smaller” authors), not you or your initial post. My points still stand.

And how many times do they do that exactly? What is the percentage? What about the 27 featured stories you have to read as a new user downloading the app before you unlock all the user stories and more original ones? Compared to their many other very similar featured stories in the Romance genre, I think it’d be in bad faith to say that they didn’t favor a certain type of public.

Not sure why you felt the need to respond to me in this way when we went through this already and concluded on a nice note, in my opinion. We agreed on some things, agreed to disagree on others and I was hoping that was that. This time, I responded to @CosmicIvy (again, different user, bringing up different things, different topic) and everyone on this thread saying that “it’s not Episode’s fault” and briefly explained why it actually is and linked my previous post. Of course I know “She’s not heart eying the company and building them a shrine in her basement.” No one ever said that, calm down. But from the tone of your reponse, I’m starting to think that maybe there are people building Episode a shrine. Damn.

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Every single story on the editors shelf this month (for example) is one I’d describe as being niche and they all had under 6k reads when they were featured. That’s just one example. I believe it’s already been mentioned
but smaller authors/stories have been making up a significant portion of most of the shelves for the last year.+

Also, episode is a company. They’re of course going to go for what makes money and that’s romance and drama. I don’t agree with the forced featured story read thing just as much as the next person.

This is also my thread and I think I have the right to respond to things? I responded to the things you said in my reply. I’m sorry if you didn’t like how I said it, but I was merely replying.

If you’re going to partake in discussions with me you should probably know I’m very sarcastic and that was example number 1. I know you didn’t say that. I know how to read.

We’re just trying to get all the materials together. :eyes:

(That’s a joke, by the way, I’d never build them a shrine, I’m too lazy)

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Not the right way to have a discussion like this. There’s also a difference between sarcasm and being rude. I know you know how to read, I’m just not letting anyone put words in my mouth which I didn’t say. Hope you don’t mind if I ignore your responses now, this is clearly going nowhere and you’re not who I was talking to this time. Still, I wish you a nice day :sparkling_heart:

Edit: I’ll avoid this thread as a whole actually, I think I’ve said everything I needed to say and spoke for the people who couldn’t or didn’t have the energy. So to everyone, I wish you all a nice day :sparkling_heart:

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I’m sorry if you feel I’m being rude to you. That’s not my intention. I just honestly feel like some topics here have been explained over and over again and people still aren’t getting them or are assuming things I and others aren’t saying. Still, I’m sincerely sorry if I upset you. :two_hearts:

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It bothers me when anyone says any authors don’t work hard. Like you have no idea how hard they work. Even if its a cliche story or a story you think was made to cater to a specific audience.

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Hey, busy at work today and wasn’t around to respond but my DMs are open if you want to discuss more 1 on 1.
Will respect your wish to avoid the thread and won’t quote and respond here :slight_smile:

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I think ultimately, none of us can quantify how hard someone works. I’ve been coding on Episode for 3.5 years and can touch type most commands by memory. Coding an Episode for me takes very little time compared to when I began, therefore it is less work now than 3 years ago. Someone with way less experience could spend a month coding something I can do in a day, ergo they have worked harder.
I have stories now with far more complex coding than when I began, but for me I attempt to balance the complexity of the coding/branching with how often I publish. I could take 10x longer per chapter (and create a zillion more overlays/mini games) but that would mean my publishing becomes less frequent, which would impact my retention and reads. Finding a balance that works for you is key.
I think if your aim is to trend and to write a story with a high read count, then you need to be aware of your audience. I wrote a story in the thriller section that was a huge flop, I shelved it and came back with a cliche office romance story, which won best directing and trended highly.
I wanted to write a story that would trend on Episode so I wrote a romance/drama and updated it with two chapters a week for three months after it won the contest.
I wrote that 18 months into my Episode “career” and before that I had moderate success with other stories, but the romance/drama stories were always the ones that did best.
I think Episode is doing great right now for smaller authors and there’s lots of opportunities and shelves compared to 3.5 years ago.
It’s very hard to trend with a small number of chapters, even for “popular” authors, which is why most people write longer stories, broken into seasons, because every time you publish, you get a big boost that pushes you higher up the ranks.
I do think it fundamentally comes down to if you’re writing on the right platform? I think some stories that don’t do great here would fly on other platforms and perhaps that’s an avenue for other authors to explore if they are frustrated with Episode.

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Heh :smiling_face:
It’s all good. I tend to play “devil’s advocate” and it rubs people the wrong way sometimes.
I would consider my view of the situation more realistic, truth be told. Doesn’t mean that the reality isn’t disheartening for many people, and understandably so.

The reality is…Episode is absolutely out to make money. Pocket gems is a for profit company with employees that expect a paycheck (In a high cost of living area of San Francisco, CA…)
I wouldn’t say I view them through rose tinted glasses :woman_shrugging: Just…realistic?

I think the point has been belabored enough though. Not sure what else to say about it.

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This is such an important point too. You tend to notice with shelves that the stories with a larger number of episodes seem to do better than the others. Speaking for myself, I even migrate to those stories more often than ones that only have 3-4.

When my own story got on the Hidden Gems shelf I had 12 episodes which was a big part at sending me into trending. We all know readers are persistent when it comes to getting their updates, which I don’t blame them for. So they’re going to tend to look at the stories with more chapters because 1. They assume this story is probably getting updated faster and 2. Who knows how long a story has been at 3 episodes.

There are just a lot of factors to success on this platform.

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Bingo.

This. I think a lot of people really don’t understand that the main structure of Episode isn’t going to change. It’s always going to be an app that caters largely to Romance and Drama lovers so if someone wants to be a “successful writer” and they want to write horror another app would probably be better.

I’d agree with realistic too.

To speak from my own experience I recently finished a 60 episode story that since I moved it to romance (I was expecting it to stay like maybe a day or two) has bounced around mostly in top 30 of the genre and gained nearly an extra 100k reads since I completed it. If that’s not proof completed longer stories do well then…:sweat_smile:
People like being able to binge too I think. It’s fun to sit down and say you read that 50 episode story in two days.

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