"The Community is Getting Toxic :((((("

Ohhhh. Okay!

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Who was Ivy harassing?

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Oh god, she needs therapy :pensive:

I won’t get off topic lol

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youre so right in what you wrote. and that really does suck. people often hold grudges because it gives them a sense of comfort and healing when they’ve been wronged. you cant make someone give up a grudge, and some people never do. and that’s okay, the grudge is theirs to hold not yours. if youve done your part to make things right…forgive yourself and others will forgive you when they are ready. its sucks I know, but in time things will be okay

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Wenna, I mean in this in the nicest way possible, but stop starting drama where there isn’t any. It’s over, move onto other things.

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That’s quite an accusation, and a false one at that.

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Where was I starting drama? Ivy was accused of harassment and I was interested to know where, because I saw no such thing.

It’s a shame you feel the need to jump on everything I say, Corvus, but it does say a lot about you as a person.

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Well, a couple of things.

What did the apology consist of? What were the reparations made? What’s the history of this person “apologising.” A lot of the issues I have with apologies is that they tend to be “sorry IF I hurt anyone.” You did. Just admit to it. “You” as in the person apologising. And then is usually followed up by a paragraph about their own feelings on the matter. Maybe a scene is changed, but the person continues to rely on stereotypes and gratuitous sexual violence to advance the plot of their story. It’s hard to take that seriously. If someone makes the same mistakes over and over again, even if they apologise each time, it just doesn’t make much difference. If someone apologised genuinely, corrected the harm done, and didn’t keep doing the same things in the future, I think you’d find the acceptance of apologies to be widespread.

The other thing is…if you’re the person or part of the group harmed, you don’t owe anyone forgiveness. It doesn’t mean it’s okay to send death threats or anything, but people apologising and taking accountability for themselves should be doing it because it’s the right thing to do, not because they want or expect forgiveness. And if you’re not part of the group harmed, you don’t get to offer that forgiveness. Again, I’m using “you” in a general sense. Not referring to you specifically.

I will never, ever, as a CSA survivor forgive the person who said they wouldn’t add trigger warnings to scenes of sexual assault because it will “spoil the plot.” Even if they changed for the better, I would appreciate that and be glad for that because it would mean less harm done in the future, but I would never forgive or forget that. That’s my right. I’ve never sent that person threats or anything. But I also haven’t seen any acknowledgement of how harmful that was or any change in the themes they regularly use in their stories.

I think you’re right that we don’t have to harbor resentment for the sake of doing it, but there are long, long histories, and reoccurring issues both wthin stories and in conversations about stories in this community and not just isolated incidents. That’s the kind of context I’m talking about when I mention context.

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If you take offense to anything I said in my original paragraph (which was people have the right to call out homophobic, racist, sexist etc… things) , that says a lot about you.

Bringing up age started drama.

Calling people hostile while you say things like these started drama.

Saying I use my age as a weapon caused drama.

Continuing to talk about the banned users while we already resolved it cause drama.

I will say Ivy handled everything a lot more maturely then you did. I apologize if I caused you any distress, but please find another thread to spread your propaganda.

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I respect your opinion that I am irritating and rude :slightly_smiling_face:
Let’s not pretend that the person I was replying to there was not also being rude, however.

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Again, I’d just like to say, that step back to reevaluate valors would benefit a lot of people now

This is really the person y’all want to be?

Just saying

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Respectfully, it seems to me that the initial quote was perhaps misinterpreted. Wenna brought up age, but, from what I can tell, in no way was she trying to invalidate anyone’s opinion. She actually said she was actively working to try and perceive differences in opinion in a better way. There’s nothing I see here that insinuated she was trying to start drama.

Everyone here seems to agree on the important foundation that contributes to this “toxicity” we keep mentioning; there’s just minor disagreements on the surrounding details that have exploded into these massive arguments over what is most likely just a disconnect in intention versus perception.

I agree with much of the original statement of the post, as well as many the ideas here, but this is becoming incredibly derailed and hateful. Perhaps it would be beneficial for everyone to take a step back and allow this to de-escalate? :blue_heart:

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I’m going to agree with you.

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me reading all of this and not understanding anything:
:eye::lips::eye:
Nods head

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hey, I just wanted to say that these were great points you brought up, and they were really well written. a half-a apology is like rubbing salt in someones wounds and honestly makes things worse. also I had no idea about the author refusing to put trigger warnings but I’m with you, like that is selfish and disrespectful of them to do. I would be livid as well because of issues from my past. its totally justified to hold your feelings against them, and I dont blame you one bit. id probably do the same

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Agreed :+1: Thank you for your thoughtful response and insights.

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I respect your opinion.

I want to clarify some things. Everyone has done something wrong. I mean we’re imperfect, some people really do be putting others down. Perhaps, person A is bullying or sending death threats, being offensive and not trying to be reasonable.

I really do get why people hold grudges against another person.

I also understand an apology isn’t enough. I’ve experienced many things in my life that have made me feel disgusting about myself. I too have hurt people in the process due to my actions (not episode related).

I’m not going to get personal, but I really want to say that people hm say person A wrote a scene in their story and it came of as offensive. Therefore person B C D E F G H I J K … reach to person A to tell about the scene. Now person A doesn’t want to change their story. Say that the Episode team doesn’t do anything about it, right? In my opinion, I don’t think it’s right to send death threats or anything negative to put the author down and I’m sure you guys agree with me. But it’s also not okay for the author to ignore these comments people are giving (constructive criticism).

But my question is what else can we do? Yeah we reach out ask them to change the scene, ask them to their research, report them etc…

Y’all could hate for this but sometimes you gotta be done with it man (by done I mean not feed into it). Yk? I’ve seen so many threads about the community being toxic, authors being offensive, people being awfully rude on insta from what I’ve seen.

@hibiscusgravy I’m not coming at you btw :sweat_smile:

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I don’t understand why we need to be nice about a clear racist/offensive joke. It’s not like someone will accidentally code in a scene making fun of Muslims or Spanish immigrants. I don’t think death threats are ok obviously, but we’re so far done with trying to educate people these days. It’s 2020. If you have a technological device, you automatically know about racism, homophobia, transphobia etc. It’s everywhere. Especially teenage/adult authors who probably have social media. So if the story clearly depicts the love interest to be misogynistic and sexually harasses the MC, then I see no harm in simply saying “your story contains sexual assault where the love interest is involved. this is wrong and you need to take it down”.

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Well, I agree with you. I mean, being “nice” in the sense that you have to carefully consider tone and all that doesn’t seem to work anyway. So I was saying a direct approach is “nice” in the sense that it prioritizes justice. But I do think it matters who’s doing the correcting and what they’re correcting. Like, it’s not my place as a non-Black person to try to “win” arguments about anti-Blackness in stories because dismantling white supremacy culture requires those of us who don’t experience that particular line of oppression to be more patient and deconstruct the white supremacy & anti-Blackness we’re automatically complicit in by virtue of our privileges. However, if I’m correcting or pointing something out about transphobia or ableism or sexual violence, I may have less patience bc those are the things that affect me.

Additionally, I’m an actual adult so yelling at teenagers or whatever is just inappropriate for me. But I also want to say the direct approach is the one I generally take and the times when it becomes public escalation are when reaching out privately made no difference. And it tends to be the same people over and over again because well…they don’t want to take accountability. But if anyone thinks those people have been “cancelled”…have they? Lol.

I don’t believe in sugar coating criticism around problematic aspects and I don’t believe you need to spend a lot of time singing someone’s praises in order for a criticism to be valid. I’ve said before that all feedback around editing or removing problematic content is inherently constructive because it prioritises what is just and morally correct. But holding others to perfection and weaponising our own knowledge to refuse to do the work of providing education especially on things that don’t directly impact us (and we would be doing this to save the affected group the emotional labor) is white supremacy & colonialist culture in action.

But I did say people in the harmed group shouldn’t be policed in their responses. Ultimately it’s a nuanced topic and approach and not everything works the same way in every context. It also matters the history of the people being criticized. The people who’ve been doing the same thing for years and never apologising and never admitting harm and never changing their behavior? I don’t have anything left to say to them, which is why I use the forums to talk about general issues.

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