Toxic and Problematic Themes In Popular Stories

I’ve tried searching a similar topic but I think they’re all closed?

I got this idea from my last topic, specifically this part that I realised should be discussed further:

It had become extremely well known that many, not all, of the popular stories in the app have featured either currently or in the past toxic and problematic themes.

Examples of this being drugging the MC and the Li saves her, the Li behaving toxically when the MC is around other men out of jealously, the Li emotionally blackmailing the MC or shaming her for things that weren’t her fault… I could go on.

This is not to say that all popular stories contain these themes, as the writers on this app have produced some amazing stories, but some less than so.

Recently a friend sent me a screenshot of a popular story that she was reading that made comments about killing women. And yes, this was the Li speaking.

Have you noticed these themes among popular stories? Do you think Episode should be stricter in managing them? Thoughts?

93 Likes

I totally agree! I’ve seen this sooo many times, it’s getting kinda boring, but they write what they want, even so there’s usually an original twist there that makes the plot more unique!:woman_shrugging:t3:

28 Likes

The author making out the MC to be an “I’m not like the other girls” kind of girl, but in reality she’s trying so hard to be edgy it’s annoying, and the author uses this as an excuse for lots of her actions–
the mc acting like she doesn’t know why the mean girl hates her or does know but still tries to steal her man anyway and the author tries to shove it off by adding the fact that the mean girl and li’s relationship is “not that way”.
Harming other people, physically or mentally, for such a stupid reason. (e.g a featured cheerleader story)
tbh some of the mcs are involuntarily toxic without us knowing it

67 Likes

It’s impossible to not notice them when they’re in a story you’re reading. And actually, the story I’m reading currently just did this to me too. Season 1 was quite cliche and I was enjoying it but season 2 has taken a very concerning turn where I actually can’t even keep track of all the problematic themes I’m now noticing :grimacing:

So, like, back in 2018 I was very much like: “Episode can’t do anything and so it needs to be us that changes it. We need to write better stories and/or read better stories to change this ‘trend’ and to show that you don’t have to write like that to ‘succeed’, etc.”

Cut to 2019, I learned there was a review team… so then I was like f this. Episode are the ones who should be cracking down on this. Why am I trying to prove that we shouldn’t write these themes when literally Episode guidelines tell you that you can’t anyway?? And it was very frustrating to see how authors were then finding loopholes. Like, I think there’s a very overwhelming amount of stories that tip toe on the border of guidelines and get away with their concerning subject matters simply because of “technicalities”. So this mind set of Episode needs to be stricter gradually started to fade as I realized there really was only so much they could do. Even the update to the guidelines was just another way for Episode to let me down and to teach me that I can’t rely on the company to enforce its own rules.

So here I am in 2020 like… I don’t know :woman_shrugging: I think I might go back to my 2018 way of thinking and see how much influence I have this time around :thinking:

But to answer your question, yes I think they should be stricter. But whilst they continue to shop for user stories that are so close to breaking their own guidelines to feature, I will not hold my breath waiting for them.

42 Likes

weeeeoooo I swear I could hear this post calling to me lol

Yes. I assume they are occurring at an equal rate amongst a lot of less popular stories as well, but we probably don’t notice. With the popular stories that are promoted and / or purchased by Episode, it’s a lot easier to notice them.

I’ve been trying (and failing) to come up with a catchall term for these tropes besides “toxic” and “problematic” because there’s been a larger cultural shift where both those terms have become buzzwords, and therefore their intended meaning has been diluted. “Toxic” has come to mean “doesn’t agree with or enable me,” so those of us who criticize this type of content get told we’re being toxic lol. And “problematic” has become a stand-in for “thats how the world works, honey, everyone is problematic,” so those of us who criticize this type of content can be painted as irrational and “overly sensitive.” There are plenty of things that are problematic and can be addressed / corrected with a deeper analysis. But there are also plenty of things where people should just fxckin know better!! And the tropes were talking about here generally fall into the latter category.

One of the worst parts is the response from authors when you criticize these things. Even if you give them the benefit of the doubt and try to point out how harmful these tropes are, the response usually rangers from ignoring to “it’s just a story” to straight up mocking people for their concerns. If someone truly didn’t know better (and this is probably the case sometimes) and said, “thanks for pointing that out to me. I acknowledge that I’ve caused harm by using this trope and I am sorry. I will correct it and do better in the future” and actually does do better in the future, that’s a lot different than dismissing people’s concerns.

I think some of these tropes, especially SA used as a plot device, are used because the LIs are actually…not very likeable. If your LI is always a douche and demeaning the MC, you have to have some kind of “redeeming quality” right? So if the LI saves the MC from some random (always ugly) creep sexually assaulting her, you’re now supposed to believe deep down that he’s a good guy. While you should intervene as a passerby if you see someone being assaulted or harassed, it shouldn’t be the first time you’ve done the right thing or the first “nice” thing you do. These LIs also give off the impression that they only intervened because it was the MC & any other woman (who never compares to the MC lol) would have been left on their own.

Piggybacking off of that, I think a lot of the tropes you mention go hand in hand. LI is controlling and jealous - he doesn’t want MC but no one else can “have” her (ick); LI blackmails MC or kidnaps her, etc. all those things could make the LI not likeable, so that’s where the SA plot device comes in. Then the LI and MC bone and were supposed to believe that some major character development has happened even though a) the LI acts exactly the same except now he calls the MC “baby” and b) no one should be traumatized for the sake of some manbaby’s half-a$$ed character development. Also, not everyone needs to be a damn hero. Most of us go our whole lives without ever directly saving someone from immediate danger and we’re still capable of having healthy relationships and growing as people. If you do want someone to be a hero, have them get MC’s cat down from a tree or catch their coffee before it spills on the ground. Now you have a fun circumstance where the LI and MC have a shared memory to reflect on & you can show the characters actually connecting to each other while no one is traumatized in the process.

There’s a popular K&T winner with 2 separate instances of sexual assault / attempted SA within a few chapters of each other and the impact is brushed off as either “well, that’s just what happens” or “I didn’t actually get raped so let’s just forget about it” and it’s very disappointing. Which leads me to…

I mean, yeah. I think some of the language like “promotes” and “uses excessive” is kind of vague and as long as authors say “well, no one is specifically saying (for example) sexual assault is a good thing, actually” they can include a lot of harmful content. But I think the biggest thing is enforcing the guidelines equilaterally. There are definitely things I’ve seen in stories where I’m like ??? How did that pass review??? I don’t know the thought process there. But I don’t have any control over what any episode team does. So I agree with @amberose that a lot of probably will just come down to the community continuing to speak out and hope that people will listen.

40 Likes

If I may, I’ve been reading a variety of stories since I’ve been doing r4rs. Gotta say in various of them I read about the MC (female) who has an abusive husband/boyfriend just to be later on swept off her feet by a knight in shining armor there to save her. I’m starting to really resent this type of stories, why can’t the story be a) empowering for the female b)about a healthy relationship?

These strong themes just to start off the drama in a story is sickening. Abuse is a complex topic that shouldn’t be merely a tool for writers

37 Likes

I agree with the others on this thread. I have seen some stories written by lesser known authors that had very problematic and toxic behavior in their stories. However, since episode enjoys buying and featuring stories with a lot of reads by popular authors,

These things in their story doesn’t go unnoticed. It seems like a normal thing now. Authors like to normalize toxic and triggering content in their story for the sake of the LI being seen as an hero.

I do, I truly do. With all of these topics on common scenes, assault, topics like this one, and much more. I hope that episode decide to acknowledge these threads and start putting their foot down. But, do I think this will happen? Absolutely not. I say this because they have featured two stories that normalizes toxic behavior and problematic themes on Ivy and continue to do it on the episode app.

25 Likes

It’s a given that mainstream media (not just limited to Episode here) would always prefer the toxic, emotionally and mentally exhausting “romantic” relationship over the ones that value love, honesty, communication and consent.

Most of the LIs, usually male, sometimes shoehorned in as a female branch for the sake of gaining them “diversity” brownie points – actually I’ve got a pretty neat formula for figuring out when authors add in the lesbian branch as a careless afterthought i.e. I look at if the innuendos don’t make sense (correct me if I’m wrong but a lesbian won’t say “You’re making it harder and harder for me to control myself” right??)

Anyway I digress but the usual LIs in popular stories all seem to have the same following qualities, give or take, more or less:

  1. Super wealthy and considered super hot by everyone around him

  2. Has had multiple female partners but never gave them the time of day or treated them with basic human decency “because they’re not the MC obvs :kissing_closed_eyes:

  3. In fact, severely judges and demoralizes all the women “who throw themselves at him” even though we know he’s gonna sleep with them regardless

  4. Calls the MC a “cute” nickname, when she protests, it only convinces him to keep calling her that

  5. Stalks her, follows her, harasses her until she gives in and goes out with him

  6. My personal favorite, freaks the f out when she wears anything slightly revealing and demands she go change (okay more recently we’ve got side characters that point out to him how ridiculous he’s being and he usually relents but the fact that he would have this sort of possessive thoughts about the MC to begin with is a huge red flag, man, come on)

  7. The LI’s inner monologue is the creepiest, most terrifying thing ever. We always see them focusing on the MC’s physical attributes with insane repetitions of “And she’s MINE, she’s MINE, she’s MINE, she’s MINE, she BELONGS TO ME” :fearful:

  8. Kissing her without her consent (“I stole your first kiss”)

  9. “You can’t date me but I won’t allow you to date anyone else even though I’m free to date/sleep with whoever the f*ck I want to”

  10. Whenever the MC so much as talks to another guy, Sir Dckhead LI comes up all smiles like “Haha I’ll break your neck if you keep talking to my girl :grinning::grinning::grinning::grinning:” Like, is this sht supposed to be funny??

  11. Another favorite: when that LI becomes a dad and he gets so freaking possessive of the daughter (“You’re not allowed to date boys until you’re 50 :angry::angry::angry::angry:” like ???)

I could go on and on but I’ll spare you guys and to make a long story short, people actually find these qualities “endearing”, “ennobling”, “lovable”, the hallmarks of a good, dreamy, swoon-worthy LI. Don’t know what’s supposed to be so irresistible about a guy who belittles you and makes you feel like sh*t

57 Likes

Lol, nice trick. I also don’t like this phenomenon, but I hope this would get improved by writers in the future.

Look, I kinda get some stuff. Most romances Episode readers can fall for are bad boy, billionaire, mafia types of stories, so yeah in some way these types of themes and tropes could be hot to some. However, them being nearly everywhere being portrayed as the endgame, like no.
This story which remains as one of the worst stories I’ve ever read, ever, is so frustrating. Two pairings, despite being said in the plot as being problematic themselves (both involving age gaps and harassment), actually live white-picket-fence lives (ie. living happily ever after) in the end. The whole story is a mess, so it really (macabrely) relieved me when its featured version is hundreds of times less … that.
Point is even if Episode has sanitised anything in a story to make it more appropriate , it doesn’t negate the original portrays things which shouldn’t be portrayed callously to begin .with

8 Likes

So I read featured stories (not because I like them but to get photos to add to the wishlist) and I have to say at least 50% of the romance stories romanticize or glamorizes mental/verbal/physical abuse, stalking, kidnapping, and/or human trafficking.

Stories where the MC is forced into a relationship because of a contract they had no say in, basically all of the royalty or princess stories. Stories that portray Mafia bosses as just bad boys with a troubled past and not as ruthless murderers that send hits on people for not paying back their debts, using kids as drug mules, or use women as objects for s*x.

It pisses me off the Episode buys and promotes these stories but talk a big game about this app being for 13-year olds

30 Likes

I’ve actually never read a story where the MC got drugged

6 Likes

I do not have time to comment until after the contest deadline, but I have… so much to say lmao. So, so much to say. I have so much to say in fact that I might actually make multiple replies just so my thoughts don’t get too muddled together.

17 Likes

I’ve seen this quite a lot, things that just sit on the edge of the guidelines but don’t technically break them. It’s frustrating to see this be so common place.

This is a great point. I although I used those words in the title I too feel that their meaning has depreciated over time and they aren’t as meaningful. If a see a story that has been said to contain these themes it isn’t as surprising anymore, perhaps due to the increasing amount of stories with these themes or due to the words becoming less impactful.

I’ve seen this too, even authors blocking people with concerns rather than owning up to it.

I think I said that if a Li saves the MC from being assaulted it doesn’t make them a hero, it makes them a decent person.

Ugh there’s this one inner dialogue that a friend told me they found especially creepy, about their skin shade or something being a perfect colour.

Where they get married and have two kids…

7 Likes

Oh yeah. I wasn’t disagreeing with anything you said. Just going off on my own rant about how I’ve seen this trope used. Like the LI is so detestable that something really drastic needs to happen to show he’s actually a decent person. When in real life, you can choose to do the right thing once and still be an a$$hole who generally treats people like garbage. Of course, it’s not universally true; there are def stories with tolerable to decent love interests where the same trope is used, but this time as a plot device to make the MC & LI realise they’ve been apart or fighting for too long and need to get together / move on. There’s really no way to use SA as a plot device without, if not explicitly promoting it, then implicitly sending the message it’s easy to get over and that if you don’t get over it quickly, there’s something wrong with you. The uptick in the use of this trope is stressing me tf out.

Unrelatedly: (i imagine I shall be a frequent poster in this thread bc I have a lot of Feelings & love nuance) another thing that comes up all the time is blatantly ignoring the need to communicate, especially when there are misunderstandings. Like, LI’s ex will walk into their office and force themself on the LI (also ew) & the MC will get see it and get angry, then they spend 5-10 episodes ignoring each other until the LI pins the MC against the wall (yick) and yells that he didn’t kiss his ex & that she kissed him. The MC either doesn’t believe him bc he’s a ~bad boy player~ and walks away & they continue sulking alone for another 5–10 episodes OR they straight up bone right then and there (y u c k) and never talk about it or about how not communicating severely damaged their relationship. An app that needs to be appropriate for literal children shouldn’t be promoting stories that send messages that huge blowouts & never addressing your needs / expectations in a relationship is normal or okay. This is part of a larger cultural issue, sure, but it doesn’t mean anyone on the app has to or should be like “well every other type of media is doing it!” Thats why you see so many straight women on twitter talking about how sweet it is that her husband remembered her birthday for the first time in their 10-year relationship and almost thanked her for cleaning up after him, the kids, and the house all day every day. Auggghhhhh!!! kill it with fire!!! also kissing / trying to ~seduce~ someone bc they’re upset (or you’re upset) or while they’re trying to express their frustration is really messed up! I am tired of seeing this everywhere!

15 Likes

I did several times… :woman_facepalming:t2: Mostly they go to their first party. Drugged by a creep or (friends of) the ‘mean’ girl… :bowing_woman:t2: Those stories becomes so boring that I totally quit reading them after ‘the drug by mean girl’-scene. :roll_eyes:
I actually get bored already when there appears a jealous mean girl in the storyline, now… Life is not only about mean girls and bad boys… :roll_eyes:

6 Likes

I personally feel-- If you don’t like these kind of themes, don’t read the stories that have them. There are many of us who do appreciate stories about such things because they resonate with the audience. No one forces anyone to read any story on Episode they don’t want to. And… in the end… it’s a game. An app. It’s not required reading. As long as a story is not promoting violence or inappropriate content… if it’s condemning the toxic relationships and not celebrating them… limiting creative content to fairytale stories where nothing goes wrong would really take 90% of the best stories (and the ones that have the most reads at 1 million or more) off the shelf. It’s a personal preference, what you read, or what you write.

4 Likes

Is drugging characters and killing people not inappropriate? :joy:

15 Likes

If you read what I said: as long as the stories are condemning and not celebrating those things. None of the stories that I’ve read where someone is drugged think it’s appropriate. They condemn that kind of action and involve the police. And/or prevent something from happening before it does. Please read properly, before commenting.

3 Likes

I have to admit that I’m growing tired of people telling me that if I don’t like it, to not read it. Not sure if you read my first reply on this thread, but I’m in the middle of a story where the first season was completely fine and didn’t include any kind of inappropriate themes whatsoever and now in season 2 and 3, everything has changed, the main love interest is a drug dealer and a murderer and it’s frightening how much I feel is being promoted within this story. It’s like I’ve been catfished. How am I supposed to simply not read stories that include these themes if the authors don’t even tell me what I’m getting into?

And whilst I can appreciate you’re trying to say that as long as stories aren’t promoting it, then we should basically all pipe down… but I actually want to disagree with that too. Because if authors are going to throw in potentially triggering content into their stories, I need there to be a really good reason for that. For example, some people might not be necessarily promoting abusive relationships in their stories, but they’ll include one… for… no real reason other than to have more drama or conflict :woman_shrugging: When things as serious as that are included for a three episode arc and then quickly forgotten, it can be just as upsetting as promotion and glorification of such themes

34 Likes

You said it all :100:

11 Likes