Toxic and Problematic Themes In Popular Stories

You always have the perfect .gif for every situation

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Stuff like this makes me want to take a psych course and unravel the dark depths of the human subconscious that spawn such atrocities.

But I am deeply, truly afraid how the masses are hell-bent on normalizing such disgusting behavior, and then have the gall to dismiss domestic abuse as being the woman’s fault for not leaving when everything in her life has groomed her to yearn for such toxicity and abuse. It’s… It’s fucking appalling is what it is

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I’ve been following this thread for a long time and have only been a quiet reader so far. :slight_smile: I’m really glad that this thread exists and everyone must be informed of this thread!

I saw this film a few days ago and I was fucking pissed off, disturbed and I couldn’t believe with my own eyes what I watched. This film has romanticized everything that is possible (kidnapping, stalking, rape, abuse, violence, SA, Stockholm Syndrom etc.). And judging by the comments alone (except the commend from Rebecca Jang; she’s absolutely right), you can clearly see how manipulative humanity really is, especially the younger audience.

I talked to a friend about this film yesterday and do you want to know what she said? She found Massimo, the mafia leader, fucking hot! :nauseated_face: :nauseated_face: She didn’t mind that he’s problematic. I tried to explain to her why this kind of man is a damn problem, and she didn’t want to hear about it… Because it’s JUST a film. It’s just fiction to her. It’s erotic!

And above all, how can Laura, the protagonist, talk about love when she didn’t get to know him and was only physical with him? Oh right, when the sex is amazing then he’s the right one. It doesn’t matter to her if he enjoys killing people, makes the stewardess suck his little friend, kidnaps Laura and controls her etc.

I could be angry with this film for hours! :rage:

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This tends to be the case for all movies and shows that like to make the main protagonist very good looking, but no doubt they are problematic. Whether they are a stalker, abuser, mafia leader, the devil, rapist, and murderer. Once you make that person hot, all those problematic things they are doing will seem like absolutely nothing to those (to some). Throw in sex and everybody has suddenly lost their common sense. Which is the case for this movie. Everyone is going wild because the sex scenes are explicit as hell and the man is dominating and good looking.

this is my observation. I did not watch the movie. I saw some scenes on tik tok. But, after hearing the summary I definitely do not want to watch it.

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This has probably been said a million times, as well as being the focus of the post before mine :point_up_2:, but…

When there’s a psycho or a stalker, or murderer or something in a story. And it’s apparently okay because they’re hot. If it were some ugly, balding middle aged dude, I doubt they would be justifying those horrible actions. It’s like they get a free pass to do whatever they want. When there’s scenes of the ‘hot’ psycho killing people, people are like ‘he’s so hot and badass :heart_eyes:’ but again, if he was ugly, it would be like ‘oh, he’s a bad person and a total psycho’. People seem to forget all about problematic actions if the person doing them is physically attractive.

I thought of this because right now I’m re-watching a really good show called ‘You’, and the main character of the show is a stalker, murderer and (potential) sociopath, but a lot of fans forget about that because he’s considered attractive. The show is written in a way where you root for the main character because it’s all narrated by him, but I think any sane person can look past it and realise he’s a terrible person.

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I totally agree. Ironically, his actor (Penn Badgley) is completely anti-romanticization of his character on the show.

We even have a thread about how silly this trope is when played seriously:

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Yeah. I was actually quite impressed with how Penn was telling people to not romanticize his character Joe. It really made me have a lot of respect for him as an actor. Because not only did he portray the character really well, he knew where to draw the line. I think it’s really admirable.

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Part of what makes this response such a good one is that he acknowledges how it’s not just because he’s a conventionally attractive man that people romanticize his character but it’s also due in large part to the color of his skin.

The darker your skin and the less Eurocentric your features are, the less likely you are to be forgiven for your flaws as a character and I think Episode’s trending section (and honestly a good chunk of the app itself) unfortunately reflects that.

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YES!!! I was going to mention You and how so many people romanticize Joe despite everything. People actively hate on Beck instead and even though she’s not the most admirable character out there it still doesn’t justify her death at Joe’s hands.

It makes for an interesting social experiment at the very least that people would be so quick to forgive or forget Joe’s many, glaring faults in favor of the few times he’s a decent person. Like harassment, murder, stalking etc pales in comparison to his compassion towards that kid (interestingly enough, Paco doesn’t exist in the books :thinking:)

People tend to overlook the fact that Joe’s character was developed as a mirror to the stereotypical male romantic lead we see in media. His actions and thought patterns are uncomfortably familiar because we’ve seen it so often to the point we’ve normalized it. The same way, sadly, we’ve seen it hyped and romanticized on Episode. I pointed this out once and I’ll do it again: you know how when authors take liberties with SA as a plot device to get the MC and LI closer together? Why is that the would-be attacker is always designed to be visually unappealing? Make him attractive and suddenly the audience would have a hard time distinguishing him from the LI :upside_down_face:

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This is so true that it’s sad.

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Oh and also something else I’ve noticed lately…

The rising trend of characters slapping other characters. Not even for self defence, but like… for fun. I can’t wrap my head around it and why it’s even a thing. I guess it’s meant to be funny, but I just don’t see the humour in (essentially) assaulting someone else for fun.

Most of the time it’ll be the MC slapping a guy (for fun) for a joke, and it’s just brushed off. But if the guy was to do the same to her, all hell would break loose. Like… why is this even a thing? There are better and less problematic ways to portray humour. It just comes off as extremely cheap to me.

I’m not talking about a particular story when I say this, but just in general because I’ve seen it used a lot lately. It’s a trend that needs to stop. It’s so pointless.

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So, I agree that things like killing girls are problematic and toxic
But about the drug thing I feel like thats how people build up plot and stories,And to mention that so many stories have used that plot and their stories are so amazing and succesful

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Honestly, I don’t mind authors representing concerning topics and disturbing themes (as long as the reader is aware of it of course), but romanticising crime/psychopaths/murderers is where I draw the line. Characters with mental illnesses should be portrayed correctly, because even though Episode stories don’t have to be factual, they still influence young girls who read them. Dating & “falling in love” with a psychopathic/sociopathic person is NOT OKAY. It doesn’t make you “special” or “quirky”, it’s just awful. So as long as you’re not doing anything harmful, I think tackling these subjects is okay.

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okay, this comment deserves more attention. i’m an old *ss (read: 23) dino and I know for a fact that if my 13 year old *ss read stories where hot girls were sassy to a guy and slapped them and it went well I totally would’ve thought that was sage advice on how to get a man. like i get that its kind of funny, but without the experience of knowing that that’s totally satire I could see someone actually following it

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I agree. I find it uncomfortable to even see women slapping men “just coz” or for comedic purposes. It’s not funny. I don’t want to name and shame any story and it certainly isn’t the only one that did this, but I read a comedy recently and there was a scene where two wives hit their respective husbands who are more the macho type. It’s probably for comedic effect but I didn’t find it humorous.

Consent goes both ways. And violence is not funny whatever the gender.

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People sure do hate women, huh.

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I’m sick of hearing other people say that putting critical thought to stories, particularly ones with large influence, is “hating for no reason.” :upside_down_face:

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Is it too soon to bump this?

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Mmmmm sick of having to defend what counts as sexual assault. For the most part, I think we need to be able to draw clear lines around what counts as assault and what moments of consent issues are handled appropriately. If someone is in an abusive relationships - they are being gaslit, they are being manipulated - they cannot give full consent. I don’t care how uncomfortable that makes people having to think about the real messages the stories they’re read and writing send.

I’ve come across a few stories where there’s a moment of desperation, emotional intensity, etc. and one of the characters has tried to kiss another without explicit consent. However, in-universe the character is called out for it and more importantly, acknowledges that they were wrong and why they were wrong, apologises and doesn’t do it again. It doesn’t become a pattern. Because the characters realize that respecting someone’s agency is of the utmost importance. I think most people have had moments like this, especially in a culture where consent is treated as an afterthought. But we all have the ability to learn from these moments. And to be honest - not all sins are created equal.

If a character has already stated no, and someones tries to kiss or make a move on them anyway, they’re knowingly and intentionally violating someone’s boundaries. If someone tries to initiate sexual contact with a person without getting consent, that’s a much higher level of gross than the scenarios I talked about in my previous paragraph. I get people want to defend their favorites or whatever, but just be honest about the kind of content that appeals to you.

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Everyone wants to be seen as someone who “doesn’t like problematic” tropes unless it’s their friend or their fave writing it. You want to know what? If readers have to guess whether or not the MC will break free of an abusive relationship, if it’s not clear that that’s the intent, if the author is consistently making excuses for the abuser’s behavior, if the author is saying it’s “okay” to root for the abuser because “it’s just a story,” if the backstory of the relationship includes child predation and grooming, if readers are supposed to have mixed feelings about an abuser or an abusive relationship, if the person who’s supposed to support the victim actually finds feelings of love behind abusive actions - then, I’m (not) sorry, but it’s not a good depiction of how to responsibly portray an abusive relationship. It’s just romanticization of abuse with a few concerned readers here and there. If the ending is always going to be that the victims leaves and the abuser is punished, readers should be 100% clear that that’s the case and numerous characters, readers, and authors shouldn’t be finding ways to humanize the abuser and make him look like a complex character.

Additionally, when we’re talking about these topics in a public place like the forum, just remember that the person you’re replying to isn’t the only one reading what you’re writing. A bunch of others - including and especially young teenagers - can see what you’re saying. And they can see where your loyalties lie and what actions you think are excusable.

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